Episode Transcript
Interviewer: Welcome to conversations between colleagues with thescoperadio.com at AAMC Learn Serve Lead, exploring the innovative ideas shaping the landscape of academic medicine.
In this episode, we get the opportunity to listen in to a conversation about new tactics to recruit the best senior leadership to your institution between Pilar Varela, Director of Operations and Logistics in the Senior Vice President's Office for Health Sciences at 麻豆学生精品版, and Shannon Yeatman, consultant for Spencer Stuart, executive search and leadership advisory firm.
The importance of getting the right leaders, how important is it? I think we should establish how important it is. Pilar, let's start with you.
Pilar: Shannon, thank you for coming in today. You've been a wonderful partner in recruiting senior leaders to U of U Health and in general. So, if you can, give our listeners a couple of examples of the recruitments you've been involved in at the U for the past several years.
Shannon: Pilar, thanks for the question, and it's so good to see you. Delighted to be here with you at the AAMC. As you know, we've been partners for the better part of five years now, and started with the recruitment of Mike Good into your Senior Vice President, Dean, and CEO role back in 2018. And since then, we've had the opportunity to partner on five clinical department chairs. We're working on our first basic science chair now, a number of division chiefs, and key hospital leaders across the institution.
Pilar: Wow. Okay. You don't realize how much time has gone by. I remember starting with you and where we are now in the recruitment process, it's evolved. Let's segue into that. Let's talk a little bit about that, because in the last five years, if you agree, things have changed in the recruitment landscape.
Shannon: Yeah, you're right. So much has changed, particularly as we're thinking from a process perspective about how we are engaging candidates earlier in the process and transitioning to a more virtual environment.
Stakeholder engagement has always been really critical to the process. We used to spend a lot of time on-campus, in-person meeting with those leaders, and we're doing a lot of that virtually as well, but it doesn't change the importance of the role of those stakeholders.
So, we're spending a lot of time with virtual interviews for the key stakeholders. Those are faculty, other senior leaders, key relationships that the new leaders will need to thrive in their role. And then as we start the recruitment process and the search committee is formed, those first-round interviews have moved to an entirely virtual process as well.
Pilar: I like that you mentioned that we're going virtual, and I just want to be very mindful to our listeners that virtual for the first round, but there's always that human aspect, and so we want to . . . We'll talk about that a little later with the human connection and still having candidates on the ground.
Shannon: Yeah, absolutely. They, of course, are coming to campus and those campus rounds are so critically important. And you are so masterful at putting together really impactful candidate visits.
For those virtual first rounds, though, it does become increasingly important to be able to show the humanity and the culture of the University of Utah, even though we are in two dimensions.
Candidates are paying attention to the way search committees are engaging with one another in the group. I think it speaks a lot to the culture of an organization how faculty members engage with each other, how they turn the mic over to one another, how they refer to each other as peers, colleagues, and friends. So that human connection absolutely comes through, and we'll talk a little bit about how we kind of balance the recruitment and the assessment of candidates through the process.
Pilar: I think you've hit on so many good points, and I agree on all of them. I would also add the importance of the evolving diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts in our search committees. We want to make sure that we reflect the communities that we serve and value the diverse viewpoints. We want to make sure that those environments have a sense of belonging as well as inclusivity.
It's something that we have made a lot of efforts in our search process to incorporate here at the University of Utah, so much so that we have hardwired unconscious bias training into our search process, and we're asking candidates about their experience in advancing DEI in their own institutions. It's something that we have all seen.
I would say that that's one of the biggest recruitment shifts that we've had since you and I started doing this five years ago, is that part of acknowledging and adding a sense of belonging in the process and then culturally as well. How does that look for the candidate and what can they add?
Shannon: Absolutely. It's been a paradigm shift.
Pilar: Going back to what you said earlier, can you just maybe expand a little further on what you meant by balancing assessment and recruitment for us?
Shannon: Absolutely. So it is still the role of the search committee, as it always has been, to find the most highly qualified candidates for the hiring authority's consideration, whether that hiring authority is a department chair, the dean, the president of the university, and that hasn't changed. And we've got a pretty rigorous and standardized process that allows the committee to do that, even in a more virtual environment.
But since candidates aren't able to come to campus for the first round, they're looking for other ways to really understand the culture of the university, and that helps develop their interest in the role.
Again, the way the committee engages with one another says a lot to the candidates. Do you all like each other? Do you treat each other with respect? Do you pass the mic to the student on the committee? Because that voice is equally important.
Pilar: Can I interject please, Shannon? I think one of the things that we do really well in our search process to make that evident to the candidates, to really bring out Utah, is we share a video that we've done about the campus. And it's like, "Why Utah?"
I know that in the past you've expressed that that's helped out a lot in the first round so that they can understand who we are, what we are about. That video has helped.
We've also shared our system summary from our wonderful MarCom team, Amy Albo, Joe Borgenicht, Robyn Reynolds, everybody that has to do with that publication. We send that out to you digitally, and that is also a widespread share of who we are as a health system in general.
So, that's another way that we've incorporated the candidate experience and the culture experience of the University of Utah. So, anyway, please continue.
Shannon: I think that's absolutely right. So, anything that you can do, particularly for a place like Utah that people may not be as familiar with, that you can show what it's like to live there, what it's like to be a part of the community, what the values of the community are, help develop that interest and the excitement about the opportunity that we've got in front of them.
Pilar: Shannon, just a quick question here to kind of continue what we've been talking about. Have you seen a shift in the type of candidates that we're looking for? Any type of leadership traits in particular that we're now looking for versus five years ago?
Shannon: That is such a good question, Pilar. And yes, a candidate's qualifications and their foundational leadership experiences are still the most important factor. They need to have led an organization of a certain scope and size and relevance to the department or deanship that they're looking at. They need to have a publication track record and some scholarly credibility.
But we're now seeing a lot more of an emphasis on some of the softer skills. We need leaders who, coming out of the pandemic, can demonstrate empathy, who can lead with kindness and humility, and who are embracing a culture of caring and wellbeing.
In addition to the experiential factors that we've always checked off, mentorship and faculty development are really critical today. We are seeing a lot of turnover in the leadership ranks, in senior faculty ranks, and I think there are a lot of good reasons for that.
It creates tremendous opportunity to bring in exceptional talent, but it also means we really need to focus inwardly on retention and creating stickiness at home. And we need leaders who've got some of those softer skills, who want to invest in growing their own talent and developing leaders from within and creating that culture of belonging.
Pilar: I love that. I love that entire answer. Thank you so much for really bringing that home, that empathy piece. It's something that at Utah we look for. While the hard skills are something that are always there and they're very evident in the CV, it's those softer skills, right? Again, serving the diverse population that we do and the increasing Latinx community that is the second largest population in Utah, how can I serve these individuals better if I can understand them better, right?
And so, to your point of creating a culture of belonging, as a BIPOC myself, it is something that is close to my heart and that I really try and bring into our search process as well.
So, in talking about that, let's talk a little bit more about sort of the evolving landscape of DEI and what that looks like.
Shannon: With our search committees, we lead a process and we are asking candidates questions that are very experientially and capability-based. And as it relates to diversity initiatives, we need to understand from our candidates what impact have they had in their current organizations around issues surrounding diversity, equity, and inclusion.
We are not asking that every candidate check a diversity box themselves, but we need to know that they will embody the ethos and that they've got experience working through some of these very difficult issues that they can pull from in their new role, in their new organization, and that they've got a pretty deep toolkit around the increasingly important and public-facing aspects of DE&I.
Pilar: Exactly. And I would say on the flip side of that coin, on the search process and for us here, it's having an understanding in our search committee that we're all human. And so, what we've incorporated for us to also be able to see the candidates through the most unbiased lens is we've incorporated an unconscious bias training in our search process right before we hit any of the CV reviews, right?
Just as much as the candidates are interviewing us, we want to make sure that when we see them, it is through the right lens. As much as we're asking of the candidates to keep that cultural piece and that diversity piece in mind, I want to make sure that in the search process, the search committee is also keeping a wide lens when it comes to reviewing the candidates.
And so, something that we had to incorporate since we started was a DEI training for the search committee prior to looking at any of the CVs so that we're really conscious of what we're looking at and what we're reading, right?
That's something that I really like in our search process that I think is a best practice as well, so I wanted to just kind of touch on that a little bit more and expand on that. So thank you for that. Thank you very much.
All right. We've covered a lot. So, now as we close the search process, let's talk a little bit about closing the deal. What are the key elements, in your opinion, of a successful recruitment?
Shannon: A successful recruitment starts well before we are closing the deal. Tactically, a role like yours, Pilar, a director of operations or a chief of staff, is so helpful throughout the process. You really keep the process moving forward, you know the levers to pull if we experience a delay, and you are just a key interface with the candidates when they get to campus.
Pilar: Shannon, I feel like I'm the eyes and ears of the candidate. We pride ourselves on a white glove, high-touch experience here at Utah, and it's gone a long way for us. We've gotten great feedback. We get handwritten thank you notes, to be honest with you. We've had those. And so, it really brings a lot of pride in giving the candidate that high-touch, high-value experience.
Can you tell us more about the candidate's visit on campus? What makes it powerful for them?
Shannon: Look, you are such a star at this, Pilar. You always have welcome baskets with swag waiting for the candidates when they get to their hotel rooms, and they immediately feel so special and thought about.
As we're thinking about the campus visit and their itinerary, it has to include those key stakeholders and the faculty, and there really needs to be a balance of small group meetings, faculty town halls, if that's something that we're doing, and one-on-ones so they can have those more intimate connections and ask the difficult questions.
The logistics, right? They need breaks. People need to eat. They need a guide around campus. And a campus tour is always really appreciated as well. A nice dinner in between the two days is always very nice. And ideally, it doesn't go too late because they are exhausted at the end of those days.
Pilar: Indeed. I think all of those . . . you touched on everything that makes for best practices for a very memorable and inclusive campus visit.
Well, on that note, why don't we go . . . can we talk about the close, the actual close? What does that look like from your point of view?
Shannon: Yeah, of course. Look, by the time we're talking about an offer, this is six or nine months after we've had an initial conversation with the candidate.
Pilar: Or a year.
Shannon: Or a year. We don't talk about those. But at this point, there shouldn't be any surprises, right? If we've done it well, we know where this candidate is both personally and professionally. If we've got a dual recruitment situation, we should be pretty far down the path of knowing where that partner's going to land. We need to know about their kids and their interests. Do they play club soccer or hockey? They should have done the real estate and community tour.
My point is once we're at the finish line, we need to know all the levers that we need to pull for a successful close.
And once your candidate says yes, that's not the end. You don't walk away, right? Best practice is to really think about the recruitment lasting up to a year into their new role with a really well-developed onboarding plan, executive coaching, having some peer support networks in place, having a point person on campus who can help them with the community engagement, churches, synagogues, temples, again, club soccer, the best florist to send their partner flowers on their birthday. It's really critical.
It's not just knowing where the bathrooms are, but it's helping the person find a footing in the community that ensures a smooth onboarding and, again, that stickiness that's going to keep them there for years to come.
Pilar: I holistically agree. And I like to use that word, Shannon, thank you, because it's all-encompassing. I think best practices, most people think it's just boots on the ground, right? "Let's just get them through the search process with the interviews." But everything you've mentioned goes to the close. How did we make them feel when they left Utah?
And I think we should always keep in mind they're interviewing us as much as we're interviewing them, and having touched on every aspect of their life, not just their professional life, but their personal life, is very important.
Shannon: Yeah, that's a really good point. And at the end of the day, only one person gets the job, and you could have interviewed 10. You want those other nine people to have had a great experience through the process too, because they become your future marketers.
Pilar: Exactly.
Shannon: And they can talk about what a great organization and great culture you all have. So, that is something you all do incredibly well.
Pilar: And thank you to you, my partner in crime. I can't do it without you guys, so I agree. Thank you again for coming on. I super loved having you here, for making time. And I don't know. I'll see you tomorrow, I guess.
Interviewer: Well, thank you very much for all those insights for institutions that are struggling or that need to recruit effective senior leadership in order to execute their visions and accomplish the goals of their institutions. Pilar and Shannon, we appreciate all of your insights today.